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tibet - The Villages

hutch0
Date: 2008-03-15 23:25
Subject: tibet
Security: Public
Location:the utility room in the sky
Mood:angryangry
Music:porcupine tree
Sorry. Words fail me. They really do.
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Kat: Sad trouble
User: artykat
Date: 2008-03-15 23:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Sad trouble
I has a sad, too.
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-16 00:10 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Meanwhile, the West keeps knocking down easy targets like Iraq. I interviewed the Dalai Lama four or five years ago, and I never saw a nice man so angry as when he talked about what had happened to Tibet.
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Kat: Sad
User: artykat
Date: 2008-03-16 00:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Sad
That is saying something. It is just so appalling, or, as you said.... there are no words.
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-16 00:27 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
It's obvious the protesters are trying to embarrass the Chinese ahead of the Olympics, and it's obvious it's working. I've never understood why the West just rolled over on this one. And continues to roll over. I know China - and that includes the man in the street - regards Tibet as Chinese territory and thinks everyone else should butt out, but it's an armed occupation, for heaven's sake.
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Kat: trouble
User: artykat
Date: 2008-03-16 00:34 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:trouble
Oh yes, it is clearly working!
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-16 00:45 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
But the cost of just embarrassing the Chinese is higher than most of us would ever consider. I despair of the West, allowing this to go on for so long. Iraq was a shoo-in, Iran seems to be heading that way, but things like Tibet and (a personal bugbear) Zimbabwe seem to be sidelined. I dunno. What's the point of being President of the world's only superpower if you can't use the position to crack heads together? It baffles me.
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Kat: blobfish
User: artykat
Date: 2008-03-16 04:45 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:blobfish
But the cost of just embarrassing the Chinese is higher than most of us would ever consider

That is so very, frighteningly true

What's the point of being President of the world's only superpower if you can't use the position to crack heads together? It baffles me
You and me both. I have often wondered the same thing. It is rather like the generation of parents we have now, or in the BabyBoomer era, where discipline is seen as a bad thing. Where authority is seen as a dirty word. If not to use it for good, then why have it?

Edited at 2008-03-16 04:46 am (UTC)
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User: (Anonymous)
Date: 2008-03-18 21:44 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Gee, I always thought the West "let it happen" because there was no business advantage to interferring. Their natural, material, and economic resources are limited, so Western governments turn a blind eye the overwhelming tragedy. They are not "worth it" economically speaking.

Generally, I'm quite Pollyanna and can manage to see several sides to a situation, but this is the heart-wrenching, cynical fact of the situation.

Likewise, Africa's tragedies have been ignored because, while they have natural resources, their infrastructure is so lacking that it is not "worth it" to the US to invest in or meaningfully aid them. It is nothing less than shameful.

-the ojm
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-18 22:16 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
There is that, although strategically Tibet's quite a handy thing to have. The British recognised this in 1904 when they sent Francis Younghusband and a large detachment of troops in what became a sort of de facto invasion in order to keep Tibet out of the hands of the Russians. A lot of Tibetans died in that incident, so our hands aren't exactly clean.
You also have to remember the time of the Chinese annexation. We were just five years out of a world war, the Cold War was just getting into its stride - the Berlin Airlift had only ended the previous year. Logistically, it might have been possible to mount a meaningful military response to the annexation, but there wasn't the will for it. Poor Tibet - far away and, as you say, lacking in anything the West might want, took second place to the face-off that was developing in Europe.

And yes, I agree with you about Africa, as you know. It is shameful.
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User: (Anonymous)
Date: 2008-03-19 00:49 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Gee, I always thought the West "let it happen" because there was no business advantage to interferring. Their natural, material, and economic resources are limited, so Western governments turn a blind eye the overwhelming tragedy. They are not "worth it" economically speaking.

Generally, I'm quite Pollyanna and can manage to see several sides to a situation, but this is the heart-wrenching, cynical fact of the situation.

Likewise, Africa's tragedies have been ignored because, while they have natural resources, their infrastructure is so lacking that it is not "worth it" to the US to invest in or meaningfully aid them. It is nothing less than shameful.

-the ojm
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-19 23:21 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Didn't you just say this?
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User: (Anonymous)
Date: 2008-03-20 20:11 (UTC)
Subject: Apologies
Our satellite connection, since we are in the wilderness, was politely waiting its turn apparently. I thought that I had not sent it because it was still there a minute later, so I reclicked.

In any case, regardless of the historical ties to any place in the world, our wholly materialistic governments in the West base everything on material concerns. Dressing them up with whatever rhetoric the Media or the powers that be wish, but the bottom line is the bottom line in political choices.

-ojm
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-21 00:56 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Apologies
Okay. I thought it might be something like that. Happy holidays. Talk to you soon.
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RealThog: Jim's bear pic
User: realthog
Date: 2008-03-16 00:39 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Jim's bear pic

If you can find a copy of Lionel Davidson's thriller The Rose of Tibet, you might want to give it a read. It gives what feels like an authentic portrait of how things were when the Chinese rolled in. That I can still remember reading the book quite vividly, despite the fact that I must have been in my mid-teens at the time, says something.

As you say, it's puzzling why the West just abandoned Tibet to China. It may simply have been a matter of time: we forget how very far away different parts of the world were from each other just a few decades ago. My guess is that Western governments felt constrained from taking the appropriate economic action because at the time the USSR was the Big Bogeyman Under the Bed, while China was seen as a useful counterbalance on the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend principle -- thus China should not be too much upset. Or something. Still seems shameful, though.
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-16 14:12 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I used to love Davidson; I read Kolymsky Heights a few years ago and then everything of his I could get my hands on, but I could never find a copy of The Rose Of Tibet.
I guess you're right about the way things have changed. Back when the Chinese annexed Tibet it must have seemed like a little local matter at the far edge of the world, not worth getting involved in - and as you say, Russia was the big concern then.
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RealThog
User: realthog
Date: 2008-03-16 14:34 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

"Back when the Chinese annexed Tibet it must have seemed like a little local matter at the far edge of the world, not worth getting involved in"

From dim memories, I think it was (at least in the UK) one of those instances where the people wanted something done about it, but governments were reluctant to act.

I'm surprised Rose should be harder to get hold of than Davidson's other novels. Of the half dozen or so I've read, it and Night of Wenceslas would seem the strongest.
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-16 15:05 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
From what I can see, governments are still reluctant to act.
I liked all the Davidson novels I read, but I preferred Kolymsky Heights. I note that Rose is available on Amazon. So that solves that problem.
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RealThog
User: realthog
Date: 2008-03-16 15:22 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

"I preferred Kolymsky Heights"

Which is one of the ones I haven't read. I'll keep an eye open for it.
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-16 23:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I think it's a brilliant book, particularly the last third or so. Googling Davidson to see whether he's still working (Kolymsky Heights, his last book, came out in 1994) I see that The Night Of Wenceslas was filmed as Hot Enough For June, with Dirk Bogarde, a film I've heard of though never seen.
Have you ever read Thomas Gifford? The Wind Chill Factor is an outstanding thriller.
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RealThog
User: realthog
Date: 2008-03-17 00:08 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Was this who you had in mind?

http://www.amazon.com/oration-proportionate-cultivation-intellectual-powers/dp/B0008BAQKK/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205712195&sr=1-21

I thought I'd read some Gifford, but a quick roust through amazon.com suggests that I haven't. I'm not really in thrillerish mode at the moment (though thinking of reading a Gregg Hurwitz once I've finished the current book), but Gifford's Hollywood Gothic looks like it could be fun. Hm . . .
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hutch0
User: hutch0
Date: 2008-03-17 00:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Hah! No, not quite. Although clicking on the `Thomas Gifford' link on that page pulls up the correct one. And reveals some Gifford novels I'd never heard of before. I liked his stuff an awful lot in the 80s. Hollywood Gothic is indeed a lot of fun, and The Assassini prefigures a lot of stuff from The D* V***i C**e but does it a great deal better. Sadly, Gifford died a few years ago (if I recall correctly, Clute wrote his obit in one of the broadsheets) and I think he deserves to be better remembered.
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